Building bridges: fandom and brands

Automatic captions, names checked:

[0:01] I think brands are just so interested in the quick win and we cannot think about the quick win when it comes to fandom because it’s really like a deep time commitment and something that people think of as part of their identity and if you’re going to be talking and participating in something that means that much to somebody you need to show that much care back because yeah otherwise it’s just not going to [Music] work hello and welcome back to the Alchemists a limited series podcast you’ll quickly come to know as your own personal sort of concierge of interesting things that you’ve learned

[0:36] at State of Social 2024 my name is Andrés López-Varela you can call me a uh or you can be like that one friend actually who calls me Al and then everyone thinks my name is actually Alvin it’s not I don’t mind today we are recording on the traditional lands of the wak Nar people live at State of Social 2024 and I’m I’m super interesting and dare I say very somewhat surprising combination um of Alchemist joining us on the show today to understand how we can build Bridges by finding common ground um between Brands and Phantoms before we

[1:08] dive in I’ll remind you the whole series of The Alchemist is uh now live wherever you get your podcasts so make sure you hit that subscribe button to see all the episodes in your feed all right let’s make the magic happen joining me today in the studio are three Alchemists including Dave Stewart whose day job as an intellectual property lawyer Law Firm Bennett butes the fact that he’s also an experienced comic book editor Dave welcome thank you good to have you here it’s a unique introduction most people don’t kind of mash the two together I’ve done the research you’re on it we also have fan engagement expert Dr Georgie Carroll how

[1:44] are you Georgie hi I’m well thank you excited to be here for this convo yeah we’re g nerd out it’s gonna be so good and speaking of nerds James Whatley brand and gaming strategist how are you James hello I’m very well I’m very pleased to be here thank you for having me very happy to have you as part of this chat welcome to the show um now each of you here has kind of a unique and quite different experience um understanding some type of fandom and the power it has to create deep and strong connections you know between people uh and also you know big strong parts of people’s identity it seems like you know being like a like a real ride or die fan of a hobby or of a performer

[2:21] or a fictional character or sporting team or TV show whatever um maybe even a brand is something that can be truly formative for our identity like you asked me about Formula 1 strategy directors or crew members in Star Trek or hot ones episodes you’ll instantly know everything that about me um so I want to start first by asking you about something that you’re a fan of and how you kind of came to that fandom I’m G to start with you Dave oh good grief all right um so in 1982 I went to a news agency and there was a comic there called Allstar Squadron and it featured members of the

[3:01] golden age of comics from 19 1940s and ever since then at a young impressionable age being exposed to the Golden Age Greenland and the Golden Age Flash I’ve been a solid fan of the sort of Now Quiet dated sort of Concepts that were first originated as a way of getting Americans behind the war effort yeah absolutely yeah there you go and how did you go from I definitely get to the how did you get from there to the like actually working on involved in the editorial side of comic books oh so uh oh God that’s a long and wondering path

[3:37] so I I after I specialized in intellectual property law I went and worked in Hong Kong for a while and when I worked in Hong Kong for a firm called deacons who we’re all still very good friends they were uh doing work for both Marvel and DC Comics I think the most interesting dispute that I was involved in there was chasing someone for using the Chinese characters for Superman on Underpants so it was obviously conveying some sort of message that DC didn’t like and um and from there I kind of had my interest in comics revived and I rocked up in a strange city I was going on the old DC Comics message board and found that there was a whole Community out there of other people who also liked

[4:14] Golden Age green lanter and Golden Age Flash unexpectedly and and kind of got stuck or drawn back into it after sort of two decades of disinterest that’s amazing that’s such a great story so nice to have that spark kind of reignited I guess years yeah Georgie what about you yeah so gosh I a fan of so many things but um I will tell you that I became a fan like many other people of Formula One in recent years uh because of drive to survive yes um a friend sat me down one day and said we’re going to watch drive to survive and I said I couldn’t care less about cars um by the end of that day I had tickets to the Melbourne Grand Prix um I I was fast I was in in

[4:53] deep um there was just something about the combination of you know a a pretty interesting sport with the personalities and the relationships between the team members and the overall teams and the team principles um and I love a reality TV show I love a dramatic TV show um people complain that it’s to dramatized and it’s not real that’s why I love it I love the little petty arguments and when you can tell it’s fake I know some of the arguments are fake I’m here for it anyway uh so yeah I’ve now been to three Melbourne grand pries um uh deep I wake up in the middle of the night to uh watch yeah cars driveing circles um it

[5:32] it hooked me thanks Netflix yeah it did its job right it did its job very effectively and giner they they did the job yeah absolutely I I’ve been a fan for a long time of Formula 1 um and my like you maybe Dave my sort of interested slightly Wayne throughout the mid-2010s and then that came I but I still kind of following up but not that closely started watching drive to surviv getting I was like oh this is this is as good as I remember it like back in the early 2000s so yeah it’s it’s it’s been such a great thing for the sport oh yeah phenomenal yeah except not good for the price of tickets tickets that’s right yes yes uh James uh I think we were

[6:09] talking about this before the break because in I was just in George’s talk uh and George did a great job of pulling apart the difference between eyeballs the audience fans and fandoms fandoms being much more active and participatory right is that right I remember that correctly I wasn’t allowed my notebook um the uh and I think if I’m being true to that definition there’s a game that I I used to call my Mainline drug called Destiny 2 and I’ve probably played about 3,000 hours in that game um but there’s things you when you when you complete things in that game you can get medals um if you there’s a raid that happens if

[6:46] you complete the raid within the first raid week you can qualify to buy a raid jacket which is limited edition and only people that have completed that particular raid get to wear it I’ve got one um and when I go to my n conferences and I wear it and there’s other people wearing it it’s like yeah yeah game game recognized game that’s my fandom yeah that’s quite a fandom too yeah I love that and we’ve talked a bit about the last couple of days about our shared love of gaming as well so I feel like I’m a very good company because all your fandoms I’m I’m totally on board with as well so I couldn’t have picked this better myself you know um so and I think that that is one of the really

[7:21] interesting things about um phant and I do take your point James you said and Georgie about that distinction you know from audience all the way down to kind of fandom being the more sort of active um participants that contribute to to that Community um so we’re talking about that kind of fandom right so it seems that that sort of style of of community around a particular thing if you like um can create bonds and connections that are long lasting very deep uh and very meaningful and even you know they might go away for a while like in your case Dave and then they come back like 20 years later for example right if I’m a marketer that seems some seees some kind of connection between what my Brand’s audience is about and what my brand kind

[8:01] of stands for and the fans of a particular you know person performer thing sport subculture how do you suggest I start to even think about getting involved with that group of people to to just signal that we might have something in common where would you suggest Georgie that we start I think it’s important to start um by making sure you know whether that relationship is truly there or and it’s not just you being like Oh I quite like I can see something here let’s dive all the way in so doing research before you dive into anything making sure that you know the alignment is there that you can add value um and you’re not just jumping on Border Trend because fans see right

[8:42] through that um if you dive in and you’re like oh hey look at us we this brand come like you know buy something come come love us we we’re taking over here that’s they will not like you for that it you have to be authentic um it has to be meaningful um and a lot of the time I would even say Brands shouldn’t get involved in those ways because it it’s so poorly done 99% of the time um because fandoms are at their heart you know they they’re communities of fans away from

[9:19] Brands a lot of the time where the fans share a passion for something and yeah they’ll talk about you know whether it’s the film or the comic book or the sport but then they also are building friendships and relationships and it’s that love of the what I call the objective fandom um is what initially drew them together but then it kind of can expand beyond that and they don’t they don’t really want Brands coming in they don’t even necessarily want the the official the object um in there all of the time and it you just have to be very careful I think if you’re trying to get involved as a brand and James I know you were talking about this yesterday with

[9:55] gaming um and how you know even in advertising Brands get it quite wrong when they don’t understand gaming properly and I think we say the exact same thing in fandom where there’s just a lack of knowledge sometimes and they think it’s something to jump into for easy engagement and eyeballs and it can just backfire because the fans see through it let’s talk a little bit about gaming because I want to get to those specific ones where you know it’s sort of where fandom is is sort of a disproportionately large group of the community perhaps now as Georgie said you spoke yesterday James about um the different levels or the different depth that you could go to with being involved in those communities in different ways I

[10:33] don’t don’t want you to reiterate your your your talk but I I do want you to maybe um pick up that point that Georgie mentioned about sort of asking for permission first I guess and doing that research how does that relate to that concept of how deep that you you might go like if for example you do your research like oh it’s not really right here the vi might be off can we still do a little bit or you know should we should we back off completely so I would want to I want to build on Geor Point completely in that um you got to find your right in like do I have the right to be in this space and that might be something as unique as the CEO of my

[11:11] company is a Destiny 2 player so therefore we know they’re a fan so come on in right do you know what I mean yeah that is a a unique way in and you’ve got the right to play um I was trying to think about a different example um but this is kind of this is kind of different and it’s about activating communities we talked about a little bit about this over breakfast this morning one of my favorite examples of a community coming together uh and proving their fandom there’s a game called No Man’s sky and there’s never been a Brand involved with it and I and I look at it and I like to think I’m an expert at

[11:47] this I can’t really see how a brand could ever get involved that game is about eight years old and when it came out it underd delivered massively over promised and underd delivered and it got Torn to Pieces the developers hello games have been um spent the last eight years updating it engaging with the Reddit Community listening updating it and I think they’re like 15 or 16 updates in about a year ago the Reddit Community bought the 48 sheet outside the office of the developers the out of home placement to say thank you a and like that’s so

[12:27] awwesome that’s that’s Gamers being nice I like wow this is great that’s not that’s not toxic that’s a fandom who genuinely cares about the developers who have made this game good and have not given up I don’t know how a brand could get involved with that yeah and I wouldn’t really want to but if you’ve done your research to georg’s point you’ve done your research you would look at and go actually there’s not a way in here fortunately for gaming there’s thousands of different games right so that’s find one that works for us yes yeah and when it comes to something like um like like specifically when it comes to comic books for example you move from

[13:02] being a fan to actually then being involved in making this stuff right how do you sort of how do you sort of you know or like being involved in the fandom Sor I should say how do you sort of you know um judge that space as being receptive or open to you know engagement with brands that might want to might want to sort of be a part of that um well I mean I guess um building upon what Georgie and James said it’s easy to smell authenticity right so I guess when someone comes someone that doesn’t that sounds worse than what I intend stink you can smell the stink

[13:41] comes off someone who’s not authentic and you know that um it takes a conversation and not much of a conversation to work out if someone actually knows what they’re talking about and whether they’re actually genuinely enthused about what it is that you do so or that you or that you all have the same sort of aspirations in respect of a character or show or game or or whatever it may be and I think that I mean for me it was you know this is all what I do in my spare time such as it is because I’ve got plenty of other things that keep me busy and I do it uh as a passion project and I do it because I like talking to other people with the same interests and what it’s

[14:19] done is um kind of given me some expertise so that now I I regularly talk to all sorts of different creators in the genre about what it is that they do and uh and have met some really interesting people and we all speak the same language yes so my you know when I take my intellectual property lawyer hat off and I put on my you know comic book editor hat on um there’s quite a bit of difference between the two there’s not a lot of bleed between the two roles yeah that’s fair enough yeah um I think you made some good points James like that no man sky is a great example nobody wants to be that brand that comes into a

[14:56] community and like drops a clanger or totally misr like that’s a great example that’s a community doing something on their own right obviously if you’re going to be making a connection with fans of a particular subject or a particular thing their passion object of fandom like you say Georgie you got to understand the house rules so you don’t end up doing sort of like um you know like a Pepsi Kendall Jenner situation right classic classic cler what what are the best ways to make sure that like if you’re involved already right so let’s say you know you you you know whether it’s sometimes we lock into these things

[15:31] whether it’s through a sponsorship or a partnership and all of a sudden you become part of a community um how do you sort of show that you um add value to that Community how can you sort of be sort of not just stealing or appropriating but you know building up and kind of you know leaving it better than you left uh I think the there’s two things that played one is the points I made in my talk around depth investment commitment time patience if you’re in for the long Hall then you’re in so the Oreo Xbox work was the first gaming piece we did since then they’ve done

[16:07] Pac-Man and I think they’re just about to do Mario okay so like we’re in we’re into the gaming bit and that’s that’s from an Oreo perspective um what’s interesting to me is that there’s not you don’t always have to go ahead and shove a product into a game to make something work like that people that play video games care about the people that make the video games often times when they’re really into that fandom they want to know who those developers are and also want to know that they’re being paid and looked after and not being made redundant and not being burnt out um another different way of looking at it might be to go who are the

[16:42] developers making games right now could we invest or back or support upand cominging developers emerging emerging developers just to so that our brand is associated with supporting young Talent who’s making great creative and that creative doesn’t have to be an ad it could be a game so that’s y to me I think that’s much more interesting way of going you know what we we’re committed to this fandom we’re committed to people the play video games because we’re going to back developers and that to me is more interesting yeah I was just going to add to that slightly and say it’s easy to

[17:19] come in at a viral moment and jump onto a phandom trend and you know my research is into Taylor Swift um I’ve been a Swifty since 2008 and it’s you know only in the past year with the errors tour that suddenly it’s been cool to be a Swifty and suddenly every brand wants to be involved and so many of them are just jumping on the you know the friendship bracelet making Trend and they just want to try and grab the eyeballs but they haven’t put any further care into it and they haven’t put any further research into it and there’s no real strategy behind it and you don’t want to be that brand that’s just trying to grab the the quick guys

[17:59] you want to you know it might not be Taylor Swift because you know she’s a superstar but there are so many other artists out there and there are so many other fandoms out there and if you do want to get involved it’s important to do that research and to find brand alignment and to find your reason why it’s not just to get any eyeballs you need to you know find the alignment and it might never be a tailor Swift moment but that doesn’t mean there’s not a really passionate community of fans there for you to tap into and too often I think brands are just so interested in the quick win and we cannot think about the quick win when it comes to fandom

[18:40] because it’s really like a deep time commitment and something that people think of as part of their identity and if you’re going to be you know kind of talking and participating in something that means that much to somebody you need to show that much care back because yeah otherwise it’s just not going to work George you’re an early adapter then right so you must really look down your nose that people jump on the bandwagon way too late oh yeah with with the swifties I’m like guys I have been um I was studying her before no it was uh I was just very lucky with my timing because until that point nobody cared it was just another

[19:18] case study but yeah it has been interesting watching her all right then I guess can’t complain um that what you just mentioned Dave actually something I wanted to to touch on uh because it happens a lot in in fandoms some more than others that you know some are known for their openness and acceptance of new members I think maybe swifties is a great example of that and others there’s just such hard gatekeeping where it’s like well you know you don’t meet the standard or the criteria of being an actual F you know like a big criticism of dri to survivors it’s they’re not real formul one fans right weren’t watching in the dark days when Bernie eom was in charge and you know like

[19:57] people were literally dying on like a fortnightly basis in race you know there’s this sort of there’s that kind of tension there and you know some uh you know comic books is is probably a world where there’s actually unfortunately a lot of almost very toxic gatekeeping as well oh hell yeah yeah yeah look it’s such an obscure little oh actually that’s a complete lie you know there was a guy called Warren Ellis who wrote a book called com in alone in 2003 who predicted the death of the industry he said this is going nowhere it’s like you’re all writing superhero comics they’re all crap it’s like as if you went into a shop and there were nothing but books on nurses you know so what what are what are your options here oh

[20:34] nurse another hospital nurse yeah what are you doing writing about the same genre of people who uh look like they should be in pro wrestling wearing capes you know what’s what’s the point and then of course you know Iron Man came out and suddenly everyone thought oh hello here’s this here’s this you know kind of kind of weird sort of genre of Adventure that suddenly became incredibly popular and you know we’re talking about of OG fans you know all all of us who actually kind of weathered the storm thinking that the entire industry was going to fall over suddenly gone what are you doing here you know what the hell what do you up

[21:09] right yeah what what were you reading back in 2003 yeah I guarantee you it wasn’t supero comic so so um yeah I mean and I don’t know how you deal with that and and um I guess I guess if you looking at it from a branding perspective you know in terms of trying to forge strategic Alliance alliances with fandoms you look for those key Gatekeepers you try to persuade them that you are genuine you are actually concerned um you’ve got a real interest in it and you’re trying to help the phanom as opposed to M them for money yes yes I think that makes that makes good sense I think it sounds like the right approach I think however though is

[21:45] there maybe an argument for if Community does have that sort of Hardcore gatekeeping isn’t there argument to say that’s not the right Community it’s not a brand safe space I think it really depends um and I think sometimes that’s the key theme of this conference everyone’s Dom yeah it depends but often there’ll be lawyers what like there’ll be aspects of a fandom that can be super gatekeeping but that’ll just be one tiny part of the fandom that doesn’t necessarily speak for everyone okay um I think you know even with the swifties there were people having this crazy argument the other day because

[22:25] apparently people were I don’t know why anybody cares about this but people people were allegedly lying about the year they became a fan and they were like oh you’re saying you’ve been here since 2007 but I’ve like how could you you are only this old and show me your red tattoo to prove that literally and I was like does it doesn’t matter so you can find these weird gatekeep things I think you know maybe in gaming and comic books it can get more problematic those kind of um where there is more toxicity than say some more mainstream like your Taylor Swifts like a lot of your sports yes there will be Corners that are gate kept but when something’s very mainstream more broadly there are still

[23:05] safe ways to get involved but I think if a if something has a reputation for being toxic definitely stay away even if there are nice people within it like you don’t want there’s too much brand risk there I would say there’s a Tipping Point right where small communities want are very inclusive they want people to hear about how wonderful it is their obscure the passion is and then if it gets to the point of actually being successful that all switches and well hang on a minute I’m I was here first and I’ve got more knowledge than what you do and there’s that kind of um you know almost like some sort of repulsion yeah towards the fact that it’s it’s been popularized and that you know

[23:43] you’re not worthy kind of vibe to it I think the the I mean you touched on it Dave there’s it’s a fine line there’s Tipping Point because some of that can be um uh sort of like uh the sort of status seeking Within These communities and which is a valid part of of fandoms you know not not the G not the toxic gatekeeping but the sort of like oh wow this person on this forum knows so much about if we talk about formul one about the history of the Red Bull Racing Team between 2010 and 2015 like they are the goat like it’s a status kind of indicator so um and sometimes it’s gain through competition gain through like

[24:18] you know the skin example is a good one um sometimes it’s gained just through I guess being an active moderator in a community and being sort of very responsive it strikes me that’s kind of like a bit of an untapped area for brands in the sense that you know first of course to prove they are uh as worthy a fan as themselves if you like as others in the community but then to also kind of demonstrate their commitment to Growing that fandom in a positive way do you think some kind of like healthy competition or you know I hate this word but gamification could be a smart way for Brands to sort of um you know um add value rather than just sort of jumping on things good so can I can I take your

[24:57] question make it really specific for Georgie for a minute yeah sure um so in your presentation you talked about how swif is use TN times number yes to demonstrate how often Taylor Nation who’s the fan what it’s her marketing team marketing team had interacted with them can you imagine a world where a brand would have a TN number I think there are certain brands um you know your really like popular kind of cool brand um but it would have to be it’s not just being noticed it has to be like for a value reason so they you’re noticed by TAA gives you status in the community

[25:37] and kind of that idea of a hierarchy um because that is valued within the community so attention is more important than knowledge or spend of money or what like every Community has a different um value system in their in the creation of their hierarchies so um I actually explored hierarchies in my PhD research and a lot of the work that had been done was on your more traditional forms of fandom like your you know your TV fandoms and your um comic fandoms where it is a lot around time um uh time knowledge um so being able to you know show your how much you know and also as

[26:15] you were mentioning like having a position of power like being a moderator um or you know creating fan events um whereas in the Taylor Swift fandom and increasingly in other forms of celebrity fandom the value is in things like having met the celebrity being noticed um and so if you do have a community where you know maybe I I can’t even think of an example right now but where there is a reason to want to be engaged by that brand and it does you know give you something in return then I think there could be and you know you see it um for example I think we kind I don’t

[26:53] like nfts and web 3 and I don’t think they belong in phandom that’s a whole other issue but some of the Formula 1 teams are still trying to do it McLaren is yeah McLaren and Red Bull and Red Bull have a thing in their fan club where if you get a certain amount of Engagement with their nfts you can get a special Discord um badge yeah and they they they’re like oh this is what you’re valuing and I’m like no that’s what you’re valuing and what your sponsors are valuing no that badge means nothing it means everything to you nothing within the fandom whereas the TN didn’t come from Taylor Nation they didn’t tell

[27:28] their fans to do that the status came naturally from within the fandom and it’s something that can’t be forced it’s not something that if a brand told you to do it you’re just kind of like well that’s why why would I yeah but if it comes up organically and I think that’s kind of the tension that’s the that’s the yeah okay okay I’m amazed we’re still talking about nfts in 2024 right I thought I thought they were done oh and yet oh my goodness yeah it’s a it’s a that’s a whole other that’s a whole other podcast to record I’m very very quiet but I don’t own any n you you you want to say you don’t endorse you no um before we wrap up our

[28:08] chat I want to ask you to all play fast and loose with your opinions uh Dave this going to appeal more to your comic book side your lawyer sign probably Quick Change hats stuck I have some uh brief questions which I will uh ask I least ask a question of each of you randomly wanton you give me the first thing comes into your head and the rest of us can agree disagree Shake our head violently whatever we feel is right I saw him do this the other day I’m terrified you create a new substance that can shape online culture create in your lab right what one thing would you hope to change

[28:41] online for the better with this substance no this is my lawyer hat right so this this is definitely because which is which is all about prevention it’s just you know first you know my in my seminar I said get insurance right because you just don’t know someone’s everyone’s going to come after you you know get insurance the second thing cuz I’m talking fast the second thing is um you know be aware don’t go and step on someone else’s rights don’t go and you know trample someone else’s product or brand or Goodwill or image or whatever it is just think about these things third thing is you know switch your brain off you know if you think you’re going to go off and say something really really stupid just stop have a pause make sure you’re not going to say

[29:20] anything defamatory which is they going to make your next three years of your life miserable because someone’s actually chasing you it’s that I think so you you know here’s the magic substance that’s it just hesitate and pause hesitate and pause yeah before you do something stupid it’s going to go off and really irritate someone just have a little think about it first I great Market you should bottle that and sell it in the pharmacy yeah a bottle of por magical substance a bottle of pores yeah yeah yeah um just tell it’s empty just like that smart water oh it’s definitely got banal in it tastes delicious yeah uh all right James you’re next as an alchemist you uh rewrite the laws of the universe with

[29:59] your new discoveries every time what’s the latest thing that you’ve learned that you want the audience to know about too the difference between fan and fandoms that I learned in George’s talk just now genuinely has been life-changing for me like the way I think about fans and fandoms particip participation versus versus really leaning into it some people just buy T-shirts other people are active participants of the community um understanding that difference because so many Brands and I’m repeating your words um so many Brands flagrantly flagrantly easily throw that uh to to

[30:37] talk about their own fans and you’re like you’re not creating fandoms they just buy your shoes they’re not going out and making you know like big posters saying thanks for the shoes they’re not doing that it’s not a fan they’re not buying ads outside your your sto thank you for the game you you’ve just got customers that’s okay um but that difference is really clear to me now and I only learned that literally an hour ago that’s good I did ask you for uh you know the the the latest thing you’ve learned so that’s that we couldn’t get any any more up to date Georgie your turn M as an alchemist you the marketing Mass has come to you for insights about what the future holds to gaze into your

[31:14] crystal ball what’s the biggest internet Trend that you see coming to an end in the next year oh it’s so hard because so many Trends I’m over in a matter of days like you know I feel like you know I just get my head around like brat summer and then it went to and we’re all gone I think I don’t know if it’s going to end so much but I think it’s going to be interesting to see what’s happening with social video because Tik Tok keeps getting longer and then it’s like at what point do we just like is that just

[31:54] YouTube what and you know Instagram still try and push reals but it’s like what are we what is happening there and I don’t and I think we either need to decide what sort of video we’re doing or it’s all going to kind of just just fizzle out yes I just realized I’m making hand signs in a in a podcast that’s not evidence yeah I think you know Tik Tok for a long time had its its whole hook being those short videos but it’s like if that’s no longer your thing what is your yeah well thank you so much this has been actually a really mind uh expanding

[32:33] conversation and um a topic that I think you know certainly we’ve heard a lot about actually at this conference first conference i’ I’ve I’ve attended where there’s been so many people touching on this in one way or another um and um it’s been it’s been a really really fascinating conversation so Dave Georgie James thank you so much for your time thank you for joining me on the show and uh go out there and make the most of the rest of State of Social thank you very much thank you cheers there is plenty more to wrap your ears around on the Alchemists including heaps of in-depth chats with this year State of Social speakers so make sure you follow the show wherever you get your podcasts and if you like what you heard give us a five-star review and tell a mate or two or three tell your mom the

[33:17] Alchemists is a co-production of State of Social and Creative Fix the show is produced by me Andrés López-Varela and Aaron Matthews from Creative Fix with additional production support by Cal McClain Meg Coffey is our executive producer on behalf of all the Alchemists I’m a I’ll catch you next time